The Atlas Society Asks Dr. Naomi Wolf

The Atlas Society Asks Dr. Naomi Wolf on January 12 @ 2 PM PT / 5 PM ET. Naomi Wolf is a New York Times bestselling author, columnist, and political activist. Following the publication of her first book, The Beauty Myth, Dr. Wolf became a leading advocate of what’s described as third-wave feminism, and later served as an advisor to the presidential campaigns of Bill Clinton and Al Gore. She has published ten books, including The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot and Outrages: Sex, Censorship, and the Criminalization of Love. More recently, she’s been a fierce and consistent critic of COVID lockdowns and mandates, with personal experience in the censorship of such criticism, including her deplatforming by Twitter last year. Join the conversation to ask your questions LIVE on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and LinkedIn or register HERE on ZOOM.

Transcript of the discussion:

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Thank you.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Thank you.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And this is recorded to right, so I can post it later, yes, it will.

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Jennifer Grossman: And will and will provide those links right immediately found Thank you.

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The Atlas Society: Alright, everyone, welcome to today’s episode of the Atlas society, I asked where you’re going to go live in 54321.

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Jennifer Grossman: Hello everyone and welcome to the 87th episode of the Atlas society asks my name is Jennifer on G Grossman my friends call me jag.

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Jennifer Grossman: i’m the CEO of the Atlas society we are the leading nonprofit organization introducing young people to the ideas of ein Rand.

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Jennifer Grossman: In fun creative ways, such as animated videos graphic novels and living history events, today we are joined by Dr Naomi wolf before I even get into introducing.

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Jennifer Grossman: Dr Wolf, I want to remind all of you who are watching us on zoom on Facebook on instagram on Twitter on linkedin.

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Jennifer Grossman: on YouTube please use the comments section to type in your questions if you keep them short we’ll be able to get to as many of them as possible.

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Jennifer Grossman: Dr nice to meet wolf is a New York Times bestselling author columnist and political activist she received her doctorate in English language and literature from Oxford University.

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Jennifer Grossman: She she’s taught at George Washington university and stony brook university following the publication of her first book the beauty myth.

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Jennifer Grossman: Dr wolf became a leading advocate of what’s described as third wave feminism she served as an advisor to the presidential campaigns of Bill Clinton and Al Gore she has published 10 books, including.

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Jennifer Grossman: The end of America my letter of warning to a young patriot and one of my favorites outrageous sex censorship and the criminalization of loss.

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Jennifer Grossman: Of course, most recently she’s become a fierce and consistent critic of coated lockdowns and mandates with personal experience in the censorship of such criticism, resulting in her being the platform by Twitter in June of last year, Dr wolf welcome again thanks for joining us.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Thanks so much for having me it’s real honor.

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Jennifer Grossman: So your goal your work and scholarship has covered so many different areas from feminism to reproductive rights to surveillance concerns and freedom of speech.

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Jennifer Grossman: We could do an entire interview on each subject but to start with the topical, as mentioned you’d become perhaps the leading critic of lockdowns and of mandates.

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Jennifer Grossman: How did your concern it’s you know now that i’ve read some of your more recent books, I can see the connections, but maybe, if you would share with our viewers when did this concern you know begin and what has been the reception to your criticism.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Thank you um so.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I do see a through line of course I I know you know i’ll say this.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: For all of my books and all these concerns the core is basic human liberty basic human rights, I mean, in my view, feminism is nothing more than you know the gender prison on basic human rights and the book, I wrote in 2008 called the end of America, which I think you mentioned.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: It was the first kind of call to alarm that I issued when I saw the degradation of democracy in our country and I studied.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Other moments in history other times, he places when a free society was under attack and I found that there were 10 things that.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: To tell hearing rulers always did or would be totalitarian rulers, whether they were on the left to the right they always took the same 10 steps, so I.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I kind of laid that out a map and, unfortunately, the last 12 years have seen us moving you know and is nonpartisan I want to stress, you know moving you know Bush advanced it, you know.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Obama advanced it trump advanced it, although not as much as people think to his I mean credit I can’t believe i’m saying that you know and now we’re hurtling under an administration that I voted for.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Not just toward the abyss but i’ve been starting to see where we’re over the abyss the the crew has has happened in many ways, and one of the.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Things I point out, in the end of America is that people have a misconception about how democracies topple you know they’ve seen a lot of movies, they think it’s like you know columns goose stepping in the streets and or you know tenement Square, but most.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: free societies that fell fell gradually and incrementally and so now we’ve got all around us, you know, some states that are sort of under emergency law actually.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: 47 states are under emergency law, believe it or not, but some states where you can’t.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I just had an email from someone saying in eugene Oregon there were security police in a farmers market to make sure you were wearing your mask properly right some seats where citizens literally cannot read.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: The way they want to and other states like Florida they’re still kind of a constitutional Republic as we remember it from before 2020.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: So that’s the three line every one of these books has talked about.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: personal liberty and human rights, I guess, the thing that astonishes me about this particular assault.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know not sure i’m not just gonna say assault, because over right this murder of human rights and it’s over it’s not like the end of the battle, but.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know the coolest taking places i’ve said what amazes me is that, as a feminist.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I can’t believe how many people on my side of the aisle my tribe, you know people i’ve been around my whole life, who are so consistent.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And i’m talking about the elite left obviously you know who are so consistent on equality for your marriage equality LGBT Q rights Racial Equality so right on about you know organic food so aware of how big pharma can be bad when it comes to you know.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: silicon breast implants, or you know hysterectomies that are unnecessary or or you know wrong dose of hormonal birth control pills.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: So many sophisticated people are lining up to create a discrimination society that is pretty much exactly like.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Other discrimination societies that they boycotted in their college years in South Africa other places is so much like Jim crow laws so much like being a Jew and fishy France, you know, like France i’m so sorry.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: there’s like no distinction, and so I guess that’s a long way of saying the through line is human liberty and i’m kind of shocked.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I feel like I I haven’t changed i’ve been saying the same things absolutely consistently for 12 you know for 35 years really since I wrote my first book and.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I kind of astonished that i’m the people i’m talking to these days, are you know the Atlas society it’s not a man was evil.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know, Conservatives libertarians i’m on fox news, this is not like I respected and I love it and i’m glad to talk to whoever will talk to me about freedom but i’m astonished to be standing in exactly the same place as the world has changed around me.

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Jennifer Grossman: Well, you know we’re always looking for silver linings and if there is a silver lining and all of this, if we could get the great feminist scholar and critic not Dr Naomi wolf to give Iran another look as a possible.

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Jennifer Grossman: feminist icon deserving of respect for breaking a whole bunch of norms and celebrating strong sexually liberated women and female business women in her in her novels and that will be at least something to be thankful for.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I know i’ll have to do that now.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Is your question.

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Jennifer Grossman: And I will I can I can assist so.

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Jennifer Grossman: It is curious, I mean, because I think that I don’t want to get too off the beaten path here but.

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Jennifer Grossman: You know, when you look at some things that cause mania you know that cause like is seemingly exaggerated response an ein Rand is is one of them.

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Jennifer Grossman: And as a Jewish refugee who came to America with nothing and and made something of herself how it’s become that she’s she’s like a lightning rod.

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Jennifer Grossman: Pretty, particularly for the.

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Jennifer Grossman: For the left, but anyway, what for another discussion so but digging into to that you know, pointing out that, through line in in your work, finding yourself, you know surprised to be.

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Jennifer Grossman: Talking among you know Jeffrey tucker’s and and other libertarians of of the world, you know you, you are lifelong democrat I I was a democrat until.

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Jennifer Grossman: Until I went to college actually you’ve been an advisor to democratic presidential candidates.

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Jennifer Grossman: Why do you think that you know your friends and your allies and your your colleagues or former colleagues, and looking now at democratic governors who have opted for some of these most severe aggressive.

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Jennifer Grossman: Punishing lockdowns and mandates, is it just politics, you know if it had been the other side would be if trump had been for for lockdowns with democrats have been for.

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Jennifer Grossman: For more you know freedom, or is there may be something deeper in the the underlying principles of the two major parties that have led to different stances when it comes to these non pharmaceutical interventions.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Great question um just to know I didn’t advise to presidential candidates I buys one presidential candidate, and one campaign okay so it’s not an advisor to President Clinton directly.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Okay, so globally right message ag is that.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: When I can call you Okay, thank you, globally, it is not a partisan issue and people have to see that.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: there’s a Meta.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: nation state script and more and more of it is being revealed a year ago that sounded like a conspiracy theory but it’s kind of fully documented and we’ve been tracking the relationships that are.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Operating really above level of nation states.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: So you see that Boris Johnson is locking everyone down and suppressing liberties in the cradle of liberty, you know, the United Kingdom, and one of the cradles of liberty, you see, in France, my car who’s a centrist allegedly.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: he’s saying I my job is to you know cuz i’m sorry infuriate all these that euphemism the unvaccinated to the end, whatever that means quite terrifying and if you’re not vaccinated you can’t get on a long distance train in France.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: In in Italy there severe lockdowns in Austria, you know Angela Merkel is you know wasn’t.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: it’s not you know in alignment with left to right in the United States and Canada, you know they are, they are creating concentration, I mean they’re creating detention centers in Canada people.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Are are saying that unvaccinated people leaders are saying backstage people should get health care, you see this madness in country after country, in spite of what is nominally the.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know the party politics, the ideology and the heartbreaking thing i’m so many people i’m kind of in alignment with these days.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: For my whole adult life I was told we’re just beyond heinous what you’re seeing in country or countries people at feel it PO in France or Nigel Farage written.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know populace are the only ones who nationalist populist, of the one saying.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: This is not Okay, you know people you’d you think would be standing up for human liberty.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: or silent and it’s it’s down to these grassroots populace I think people like Steve bannon i’m talking to Steve bannon every week, you know I thought.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I don’t agree with him on a lot of policy outcomes a lot right but bizarrely or or maybe transcendentally there’s this kind of venn diagram happening around the world.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Which is shaking out what we thought were the labels that mattered and leaving only do you want liberty or UK with certain.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Or you supporting certain so just wanted to say that that said in the United States there is a very, very horrific situation.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I don’t think it’ll be I don’t think we’re gonna be out of the woods if the democrats get you know up ended in the midterms.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: i’m not a republican i’m an independent at this point, but the same thing could happen to Republicans that has happened to democrats and i’ll get to that in a minute, but right now in the United States, it is true, and we again mapped this data.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: That there is a a really unholy 360 degree alliance between the Democratic Party, the dnc and big tech and big tech money and time and so.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And a lot of this money’s flowing into nonprofits, and this is kind of a loophole that hasn’t really been examined are identified and from the nonprofits flowing to.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: boards of health it’s blowing to school boards and it’s flowing to governors and and and elected officials.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And it’s these nonprofits have very benign sounding names like you know csv D, the you know Commission per State and territorial epidemiologist it’s a nonprofit that’s managing CDC data to serve the agenda of.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Vitamins station which is serving the agenda of you know, Microsoft and big tech and intellectual ventures, which is kind of Silicon Valley kind of stranglehold of investment in technology you’ve got Google harvest steam coven.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: test login data you’ve got Amazon and Microsoft owning the management of the covert dashboards which I I run a tech company.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: This has been driving me crazy all those dashboards that all this policies based on that are scaring everyone to death.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: There on the front page of the New York Times, no one gets to see that raw data, and when I had leaked to me the raw data for the Johns Hopkins dashboard which everyone was referencing.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And, which is funded by Bloomberg who’s an investor, you know who’s who invests right it’s.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Only six states were reporting so it’s it’s flawed data or it’s incomplete data, I mean i’ve deconstructed all the.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: dashboards again not to go down a rabbit hole, but what you find is a complete circle in which the management of the data related to the pandemic.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: is in the hands of big tech and big tech is aligning as you see from the email from mark Zuckerberg to Dr felt sheet right about it let’s invest in vaccines right.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: i’m in a complete 360 degree circle and you’ve got Microsoft building and salesforce building vaccine passports right.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: or Hewlett Packard in case of New York state the excelsior vaccine passport and that and i’m a tech CEO.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: All that data is more valuable than gold or then oil and whoever controls all that data is really going to be more powerful than any nation state more powerful human more powerful than the WHO right so.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: That what we see as these kind of circles of embedded madness and, of course, all of this serves China or China benefits ways that I don’t have to go into but.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: A mini distinguished people like Michael Spalding i’m sorry Michael singer and gentle Spalding have documented how.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Much the CCP has invested in kind of surrounding our influence centers like Hollywood and sports teams and universities with their influence so that affects messaging you’re seeing more and more messaging that’s confusing and disorienting Americans right.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: about how America is bad or American values are bad or Western values are bad or freedom is bad and the you know and messages that are.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: That my people are absorbing great alacrity in a way that’s terrifying that the individual is nothing you know you have to sacrifice your body and your destiny and your future to the collective and if you don’t you get shunned in this very.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: kind of CCP style Stalinist style you know pre Nazi style sort of way so that’s the circle and I just want to give one tiny little new piece of evidence shocking right, this is my I invested in.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Like food stocks right like my amalgamate bags right on bank.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And they have this kind of fossil fuel free portfolio and I thought, well, I want to be a good citizen of the planet, so what we’re seeing is social justice being kind of merged into all these corporate.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: missions, and so this says, you were only going to invest.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: we’re not going to invest in companies that provide significant financial support to socially conservative institutions, they lump that in with we will invest an animal cruelty we won’t invest in you know.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Pollution we won’t invest in child Labor supporting conservative institutions is one of the things that is is leading a your biggest devilish bank like amalgamated to move their money.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: A portfolio like a dossena, which is a an.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Old kept global ETF to to shun you know to to create almost a boycott of Conservative ideas and you, you see this across the board in institution after institution so that’s my quick Roundup.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: it’s an unholy alliance that has bought the democrats and it’s coming down from the top and state level i’m in touch with many state legislators, because of my work on.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Daily clout and they say like you know we used to be able to work with our democratic colleagues, they were very reasonable and now it’s almost like you’re scared they can’t deviate.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And there’s vast sounds like the last thing i’ll say is people are baffled by the rigidity with which school boards are torturing American children that’s like.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: masking and you know, excluding them from sports if you’re not vaccinated even if there’s no live place or no regulation in that state.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And millions in the case of a kebab cream over $2 million is going from legislation by administration past.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: To school boards in order they only get the money if they stick to the covert protocols, and so there there’s a destruction of our children.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Which is very intentional, as well as destruction of other institutions in a way that ultimately is going to serve big tech and serve our adversary, the CCP.

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Jennifer Grossman: So just to return to to that investment notification that you have received so this was a fund that.

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Jennifer Grossman: You wanted to make sure you didn’t want to be investing in fossil fuel companies.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Fossil fuel.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: that’s all it’s called fossil fuel free.

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Jennifer Grossman: And and it’s saying that it will also not be investing in companies that may be supporting conservative.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Correct.

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Jennifer Grossman: wow okay.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: provide significant financial support to socially conservative institutions, which is a very broad category that could be you know.

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we’re.

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Jennifer Grossman: Not conservative, but like you know when somebody.

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Jennifer Grossman: Estimated estimation we’re we’re not on the left so.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: No, but like.

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Jennifer Grossman: I.

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Jennifer Grossman: said, we were receiving huge you know large corporate donations, but we’re not so.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Well, I guess what i’m trying to say is this is what the Nazis did right they.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: add the medical stuff is what the Nazis did they say flowed all the power and all the money to.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Institutions that aligned with their ideology and impoverished and marginalized everyone who did it.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And so what this sort of thing does and i’m seeing it in legislation which I read week by week as CEO of daily cloud is.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: All this money is flowing to like the Green New Deal blew my mind, I thought i’d wanted to vote for it, it flows.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: billions in different iterations to frontline communities which are defined.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: As democratic constituencies, basically, and never in America have we said oh you’re a person of color we’re gonna you know.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: discriminate in favor of you that’s always been illegal, just like discriminating against people color has been illegal since since 1964 since the Civil Rights Act so there’s this massive kind of them.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know i’m just going to see a plan because i’ve worked in politics, the highest levels, and this is a game plan to direct you know billions and billions from government and the private sector right toward.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: The democratic party’s own constituency, and then the Democratic Party is doing things that serve our adversaries and that survey tech.

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Jennifer Grossman: To you mentioned daily clout would love to hear more about what it is and how it can provide people who feel.

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Jennifer Grossman: You know, powerless who feel that they they’re frustrated, but they don’t know what to do.

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Jennifer Grossman: You have various campaigns, if I understand for political action, including ones, designed to push back against, for example, school closures are locked down so what’s your model and How can people get involved.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Thank you so much for asking, so I started daily cloud I co founded it because I saw how people were being excluded from.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: The process of passing drafting and passing legislation.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And I knew the solution had to be digital so it’s a digital platform that lets anyone draft to bill.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: and pass the bill, but it, we also have this beautiful piece of technology it’s a legislative database called bill cam which has every state and federal bill.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And you can find any state or federal bill like, if you want to know about vaccine passports, you can do a search and boom you’ve got all the you know.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Transparent view of all the vaccine passport legislation state and federal but it’s also interactive you can send any of those bill camps, we call them.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Through social media, and you can tweak the bill sponsor tweet the REP you can vote, you know and show your support or opposition.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And this has really moved the dial it ends legislation in smoke filled rooms, and it also lets people inform each other very transparently what’s in a bill, you know so many of them are fast and written.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: To confuse people and this way you know we can we we start with an easy to follow blog like we’re very much like you in explaining complicated things in easy to follow blogs and videos infographics.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Are focuses legislation and democracy, and so we can say okay they’re saying this health care bill covers breast cancer screenings but on page 60 you see that it does.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And then people can send the actual build for social media and take a look for themselves.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: it’s so empowering I could mention any number of times this has changed outcomes, but specifically today is very important.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: We have daily clothes, because we read the bills, we read the regulations we notify people that there was a meeting in Washington state in which they were the health.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: board Board of health was discussing a regulation that would the does give boards of health basically police forces and the right to quarantine entertain people.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: If they’ve been exposed to a contagious disease right in indefinitely at painting a court order, right to the end, the present to behave while they’re in detention.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And you know, without charge or trial, and so this is such a recipe for catastrophic outcomes in the militarization of Washington state.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Because whenever societies have these powers people covet your neighbor’s land or people want to drive their competitors.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: into bankruptcy and they’re like Oh, you know john was exposed to a contagious disease, you have to put him in.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Detention so we alerted people and we read the regulation which is boring but you know we’ve gotten really good at it and you know Washington state will see oh there’s misinformation on social media 1,000%.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: w may see 100 070 thousand percent gives Board of health police powers, and if the police don’t go along it’s a crime and.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: 1,000% it was correct, so we weren’t people and there was such an outcry and I announced it on the war room there was such an outcry that Washington state claimed they were backing off and not.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Not reviewing that regulation, but this is like the you know eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, we have to do this so.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: The other thing i’m going to share is that bill cam has is now launching next week, a basically a Facebook competitor.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: where you can organize called campaigns, where you can organize your own campaign invite people to be part of your campaign, you can embed your bill if it’s legislative into your campaign, and you can lobby.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And, and you don’t need a million dollars to be a lobbyist or to be a grassroots political or social movement now.

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Jennifer Grossman: So we go to just Google daily cloud or you know we’ll also put the the website in in the various comment streams and get a get an account and choose a campaign is that how it works.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: So right now campaigns launches on the 15th but right now, ideally cloud, you can get a bill Camus free you can just sign up as a subscriber on daily cloud.io and start.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know, start using bill, can you can find anything on bill, can you can send those bills through social media and in a week, you should be able to start your own campaigns account so there’s a lot to do already and I just want to mention one of the most important campaigns we’ve done.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: In the last six months is the five freedoms campaign at the request of our our users, and this was bought we hired a lawyer and we drafted five model bills.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: No mask mandates no vaccine passports open schools now freedom of assembly and emergency law and due to the mobilization of our users and others, you know grabbing those model bills.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And are networking with state legislators and we literally go to New Hampshire to Michigan to.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Oregon to be there at the at the state legislative session with our little video camera so they know we’re watching right 33 states have passed no vaccine mandate legislation, and it was barely a thing when we started warning people about it in April of last year.

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Jennifer Grossman: We had mentioned possible silver linings and you’ve talked about how some of these policies set dangerous precedents which could be used in you know all kinds of future crises.

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Jennifer Grossman: But are there ways in which the current crisis has brought people together across you know partisan lines and we talked about, unfortunately, that there is a bit of a partisan divide on this, but.

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Jennifer Grossman: Your your perspective on coalition building, I know that this began with your involvement in a group, I think it was in New York meeting with nuns and other people across the aisle on the abortion issue and that kind of.

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Jennifer Grossman: helped you to maybe think about them differently, maybe not think about the issue differently, but find common ground and and craft.

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Jennifer Grossman: You know, some some kind of positions that you can both agree on, so is that possible for for this issue.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: So I definitely think.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Sorry, I definitely think there’s.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: A massive awakening of some kind, going on right now there’s also a massive.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: hypnosis going on at the same time, depending on who you’re talking to.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And I do see a big realignment.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And I hope that what comes out of it leaves party labels can’t really leave them behind but but keeps them almost in quotation marks.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Because, you know as having been on the inside, those labels just serve to protect both sides who are insiders doling out stuff to their respective you know cronies.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And they serve to distract people I mean one one thing I absolutely learned as a political insider is that.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: The hot button issues that were directed to like you know LGBT like like trans issues right or or abortion rights or.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know that, should there be Santa you know, in a public setting these are all.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Like they’re worth discussing, of course, but they’re all really tangential to the bills that we read.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Week after week in which, which are bipartisan bills quietly going through in which billions of dollars are being just stolen from the American people siphoned off by both sides and handed out to their respective donors or supporters.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: So I I do think we are in for a grassroots awakening that is hopefully non partisan, whereas partisanship very lightly.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I hope, but more urgently, I think we are going to have to literally we remake some institutions because they’re corrupt all the way through, I mean gates’s money and pharma money.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Literally bought the media, you know the the the what I was the platforms, it seems like a Twitter spokesperson went to.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Many major news outlets gave them out of context or false you know statements attributed to me, and they all ran it and.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And we’re we’re not accountable and they couldn’t be accountable because.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: As the Columbia journalism review has has shown you know each of them has accepted from the BBC to npr to guardian millions of dollars in in gates funding for coven education so that leads to certain kinds of coverage they’re not free to say.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: The pandemic is over right or a macaron is is really not that serious says, the South African Minister of Health.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: So yes, I do think we’re in a time when we are going to have to after this is torn down from top to bottom, and the crushed exposed to the criminals, you know, tried and since prison.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Presumably.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: we’re going to have to remake technology and that’s why i’m really excited about platforms like getter platforms like you know not telegram because they have a fake Naomi wolf accounts it’s turned out to be about but.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know gab rumble and all of these usurpers to the big three right that’s so important, but i’m also excited about all the people writing substantial people writing blogs on people doing their own making their own media.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: But Lastly, we can have a renaissance to people understand how important human space is and what I mean is we’ve been encouraged by the tech and certainly a lot lockdowns to.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: be scared of gathering and human spaces, but also to believe technology is better than human what humans can do by themselves, but actually i’m speaking as a tech Co.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: human capabilities are superior in ways that they don’t want you to know, and so what I mean is, when people gather in a room at a dinner party.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: That is a super sonic way to communicate education that, in a way that can be hacked you know, whereas, to my astonishment state legislators are meeting on zoom or Microsoft, you know completely feeding every single item on the agenda to CCP or to Microsoft right.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: When you gather in a town hall, you can inform each other in a much more nuanced and multi Vaillant way than you can in a zoom town hall right where the moderator can restrict what you’re doing.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And also people get hardened you know in ways that are almost metaphysical or that we can’t really explain by being in human spaces.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: feeling human warmth and creating those friendships so I really you know what one thing we’re starting on on daily cloud is.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: we’re going to have meetups where people can just gather in human spaces and recreate human community, you know playdates potlucks for the lord’s sake, you know into privilege, the human, because when people assemble and history shows this tyrants tremble.

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Jennifer Grossman: So I love, with your permission, Dr wolf to turn to your career as a feminist you, as I mentioned have been described as the leading spokeswoman of third wave feminism since the publication of.

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Jennifer Grossman: The beauty myth myth your first book so for our viewers what what is third wave feminism and would you embrace that title.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: yeah sure um I yeah i’m proud of having been part of that conversation.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: third wave feminism, very briefly I I made up the phrase and.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Another writer meet up with the phrase about the same time, so I guess that just goes to show that sometimes movements that are ready to happen just need a you need a.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You need to say it’s happening for each other, but.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: second wave feminism was my mother’s generation, which was sort of you know Betty for damn Gloria steinem the 70s, the great kind of.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Post, you know feminine mystique uprising of mostly middle class or upper middle class, mostly white women, and that was a weakness movement.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: But it was a very important as men, and it was responsible for you know all the great benchmarks title nine title seven co-education women entering professions and concepts that are critical like you know you shouldn’t rape your wife, for you shouldn’t be your wife for.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know consent is good.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: and reproductive rights, you know, whatever you think about them.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: So there was this kind of latent are dormant period in the 80s, where nothing much was happening.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: and gender issues were being kind of sidelined and that happened to secretly women are always told that there they don’t really have any problems and their problems are not important that.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: They can stop worrying about it now um but I wrote the behemoth in the early 90s, and I basically was talking about how ideals of beauty, this seems like such a golden age of not that serious problems you’re supposed to but.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know the ideals of beauty we’re restricting women of my generation and keeping us from being as empowered as we could be especially with eating disorders which really was quite serious.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: So yeah that’s third wave feminism and it was I also did a bit of a you know annoyed daughters critique of second wave feminism.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Because it was kind of joyless at that point and very judgmental the things that have come back when the left with a vengeance right.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: But you know very judgmental about sexual choices you weren’t supposed to like fashion and you weren’t supposed to you know being heterosexual wasn’t okay.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know it’s very it had developed litmus tests like you have to be pro choice, you have to be anti capitalist, you have to be a vegetarian, you know and and really feminism is you know this great essential.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Extension of you know, the great movement for human rights, liberty, from the Enlightenment on you know from Mary wollstonecraft on so I wanted to kind of.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know shine or get rid of the things that were weighing the movement down or the language down and and kind of open it up and.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: and especially just let women and men say i’m going to define this for myself i’m going to live my life before like me i’ve always been libertarian just be.

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Jennifer Grossman: An object to this, I think you’re more of an object to this that’s that’s my.

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Jennifer Grossman: that’s my wager and speaking of objectivism so at the Atlas society we promote particular kind of brand of object to this open objectivism.

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Jennifer Grossman: And the overriding emphasis emphasis is on the individual individual thought individual choice individual action, so I was accordingly struck by one line of criticism against your work over the years.

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Jennifer Grossman: which was that, in the words of one critic of the new Republic your quote most dramatic exhortations are appeals to.

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Jennifer Grossman: The individual not society this particular critic accuses you of waxing positively neo liberal in your contention that the real problem is our lack of choice, in the words of the critic Milton Friedman.

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Jennifer Grossman: could not have said it better himself now to someone the left, of course, that might seem like a terrible.

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Jennifer Grossman: slur that kind of comparison, but in our Community, it would you might wear it as a badge of honor so what, what do you make of that criticism of your being.

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Jennifer Grossman: not sufficiently collectivist and more individualistic in your your work.

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well.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: First, I want to say i’ve never been talking about consumer choice right that’s not my priority.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And I do think it’s important I think there’s you know stupidity on the sides right I think it’s important.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: For like, especially in the 80s, there was this really dumb brand of.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Post feminist it was called that kind of predicated itself on the notion that everything and people, you know it libertarians i’ll argue this with them right like.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I argue with my husband because he’s more libertarian than I am about these things that you know you, you can do it all yourself and it’s all about individual responsibility.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: He I agree with a lot of that, but I also think that systemic analyses of racism gender discrimination, you know anti semitism historical hurdles.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Right now anti vaccination discrimination are really important to to just not be dumb about what is.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Possible with individual responsibility and what is it, I mean that’s why i’m always so surprised that libertarians are kind of silent on abortion rights because I don’t like abortion and I wrote.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: It you know very heartfelt essay called our bodies, our souls about my struggles around the ethics of abortion, but you know it.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: If you don’t see that not being able to control your production means women have no control over their futures, you are just not smart enough, you know honestly so.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know I do I think my books look at that always that kind of what is the individual and what kind of collective analysis to need That said, I you know we’re in a very dire moment in history where i’m going to say i’ve always been.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: kind of criticizing free markets and capitalism.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: It for their excesses and and.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: shining a light on you know great things like sweden’s health care system which is great, but right now looking at history and where we are there is more danger to two women to individuals to children from.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: A collectivist government or a collectivist corporatocracy merging with government, which is the definition of fascism, then from.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know the most ramp and individualism and free market, you could conceive of it, you know, with all of its harms and excesses.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: That women, women are safer, you know when they get to make their individual choices, then when a government decides that they can only keep their job if they’re injected with.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: It experimental substance right well, women are safer, with all the risks and dangers of unfettered capitalism human rights protect us individualism.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Post alignment liberal values, I mean capital l classical liberal humanistic democratic values, protect us more than any to tell us your hand or socialist regime that anyone has ever come up with the with the best intention stated in the world.

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Jennifer Grossman: Well, I think libertarians may be silent on abortion, because there are probably.

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Jennifer Grossman: Some libertarians that are more.

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Jennifer Grossman: emphatic on protecting the right of the mother to have agency over her.

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Jennifer Grossman: body, and then there were some libertarians, on the other side but object to this again, this is why I think you’re you’re going to be a future objective it’s an ein Rand in particular was anything but silent on reproductive rights, and anything her position.

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Jennifer Grossman: Very outspoken on reproductive rights and on a woman’s right is that in her atheism can be a.

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Jennifer Grossman: bit of a stumbling block when i’m trying to reach out to conservative students, and so I do sort of a take what you like, and leave leave the rest, but.

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Jennifer Grossman: Now, I just want to return to another one of your your most recent book actually outrageous sex censorship and the criminalization of love published in 2019 I understand it grew out of.

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Jennifer Grossman: Your doctoral thesis on john addington since I now know who was simmons but maybe if you could just tell our viewers and what sparked your interest in him and and your research on the subject.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Thank you, this is actually my favorite of my books and I hope everyone reads it, because this was a great great.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Historical figure that history has largely erased so john addington simmons was probably the first LGBT rights activist in spokesperson in Britain.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Or, in English, I should say, because he was also admired in America, and he was a mid 19th century upper middle class guy who wanted to spend his life.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know, as a as a fellow at Oxford and as a poet, and as a critic but his sexuality quickly.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: was turned against him in a highly homophobic time and place and in a place where, in spite of a lot of attacks and spears and controversy in the book, you know I am right there was a death penalty for sodomy.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Until 1862 in Britain and that’s just absolutely the case so.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: He was terrified of what would happen if he lived out his life, even in a closet and when Britain, so he exalts himself to Switzerland, he whispered he was tubercular so it’s healthier for him.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And he kind of found his his you know his great love of his life and Venice by this time he was a married man he had four daughters, he was a respected critic.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know, so he lives completely dual life, in which he kept and it’s so fascinating for a writer, to see what happened to him.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: He kept all of his homework poetry in a locked box in his study and at one point his best friend who was also gay what we would call gay.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know they went to the River Avon and threw away the key right but they didn’t throw away the documents, because these were too precious to him so his whole life, which was short right he died young of tuberculosis.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: He keeps he tried to articulate the beauty of love between men, you know he’s a great romantic and he tried to articulate and he did secret manifestos that he will a problem with modern ethics.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: or problem with modern ethics and and it was like for being illegal to pass around here articulated the first really defense of you know, the right of homosexuals to live like anyone else protected by the law instead of persecuted by the law.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: and the last thing i’ll say is that so moving Walt Whitman, who was a lot kind of he’s living in a more free place to time, the United States didn’t have laws of some kind to get sodomy.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: He found leaves of grass as young man and that speaks very politically of same sex love between men and so Whitman was like this North star for him, you know his whole career and they had this beautiful a pistol your relationship there, of course, they never met.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And so it’s really about this love between Whitman and simmons.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And then, finally, the other unbelievable thing about simmons is that he kept a kind of secret memoir the told the truth about his life and completely frank modern stark detail, but he also kept that embargoed not to be open until everyone, he was dead and he embedded.

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Jennifer Grossman: In here to write.

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Jennifer Grossman: The results of the research on the vaccines.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Right exactly 75 years he embedded in that memoir a code that his posthumous editor could put together to tell the story of his great love, which is.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: For this man Angela, who was a very handsome gondolier.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: So it’s like beautiful faith that someday the world would catch up with him and there would be readers that would want to read that story and publishers who publish it so he’s just such an amazing.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: kind of exemplar to me of faith in the future that you don’t know what your activism will do in your own lifetime, but he he really brought about the worlds, that we have today in terms of equal rights for for people around sexual orientation in many Western countries.

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Jennifer Grossman: Okay, well, I have other questions for you, as I know, I did you a heads up on some of them, but i’m going to get into big big trouble with our audience here since we’ve got a lot of questions.

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Jennifer Grossman: So let’s try to get to a few we have really just 11 minutes left but mark singer asks Dr Wolf, can you please speak to the role of.

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Jennifer Grossman: The security state in America it’s in partnership with the mainstream media see who become contributors on msnbc CNN alone, raises serious questions about freedom.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: yeah I mean he’s right, I think I pretty much summarized my best analysis early in our talk, but it extends to what experts are interviewed on these pharma outlets msnbc and CNN and in the New York Times.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: My husband Brian he is he very killer researcher and a private detective.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And he’s found in virtually every case that the you know the mainstream commentators like Dr hotez the Anna when they.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: They all are conflicted you know if you go back two steps there there’s money flowing to them there’s talking points and what’s heartbreaking is the talking points are aligned with the talking points of our CDC and.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know even our governments books like Dr without she and you know, Dr Collins before he left, so the doctors that i’m in touch with Who are these kind of very brave dissident doctors and epidemiologists like the great barrington declaration signatories.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: But some of those doctors refer to the CDC as as regulatory capture that the institutions are supposed to protect us are hostage to.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: To pharma and and by the same token, the news outlets are hostage to former and hostage to an end kind of embedded with.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: With the democrats this isn’t just a democratic problem, by the way, when Bush was in power, I would go into fox news and see White House talking points on people’s screens.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: scenario seeing you know White House talking points with different administration on people screens with different news outlets, so this is why we have to pass laws to to clean this up.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: In I believe 2012 the law protecting Americans from being propagandized.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: died, and so the floodgates were open for propagandize yes, we need when I say we need to rebuild institutions, we also need to have you know laws it compelling disclosure of conflicts of interest for people who talk to media.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Anti and certainly laws, keeping elected officials from investing in institutions that they’re.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know, supporting through policy which used to be the case when I was away how spouse I don’t really interesting much huge yeah.

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Jennifer Grossman: gabrielle Alvin Toffler on instagram asks has social media made things better or worse for keeping governments accountable.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: That is a great question I unbalanced it better, which is why Twitter and and YouTube have been so determined to censor.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: People because it’s such an empowering medium and, paradoxically, during the lockdown you know people were driven to do exactly what we’re doing and new conversations were had people were you know hungrily exchanging information so.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Digital technologies can certainly enslave us and strip us of democratic access and i’ve talked about some ways, but, on balance, social media has let people from all walks of life, get educated well by primary sources and ask good questions.

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Jennifer Grossman: Remember on Twitter asks, are you surprised, with the speed with which the Bible administration has shifted towards authoritarianism.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Well, such a painful question, I am surprised that this administration did that, even though.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: My husband was washing feet, you know they’ve got ties to China, they baptize to China don’t do it don’t do it i’m like I cannot, I cannot vote for the other guy and we can talk about why.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know it’s important because I get asked this all the time, people say you know you sound like a republican which makes me sad, I think I sound like an American but.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: nothing wrong with Republicans, but I like to think the Constitution has no party, but President trump spoke about women in a way that is a survivor could not I just couldn’t.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Vote for someone to talk that way about sexual assault and if we’re all looking in the mirror I just I say that you know, I was raised as a child i’ve written about it.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I can’t you can’t ask me to vote for someone who trivializes sexual assault like it’s not fair, so if he were to you know come out with an apology and explain it he’s learned and.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: That would change my view, but I think as a feminist it’s unjust to ask women to vote for people who so disrespect them in public their essence.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I know people will be mad at me for saying that but I don’t care, I have to say it, that said, now we have a full on coo so too terrible choices.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: and

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I am not surprised at the speed, if someone is going to.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: break the back of the country is democracy, because having studied those moments in history over and over they speed is essential.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: They have to happen super fast, or else they don’t work and and shock is part of it disorientation part of it, which is why we’re at such an interesting moment, because I think they tried and.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know, some very brave people have been resisting and documenting and reporting so effectively that it’s not working as well as they thought it would.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And when that happens, you start to see what we’re starting to see which is people backpedaling people confessing people getting it out there.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Rochelle lenski Oh yes, people who died had 8 million comorbidities they were going to die anyway, you know they want to get ahead of the indictments.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: doesn’t mean we’re out of the woods it just means that the, the more we can make it hard for this to happen quickly the better our chances are surviving.

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Jennifer Grossman: Okay quick question from Scott chef asking about the emails between 30 and columns are criticizing the scientists and calling for devastating takedown of a great barrington decision.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I mean this is so important to look at.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Imagine I, and these are these are friends of mine, I like to say that their friends their their heroes and literally the tides of hell are being held back by about.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: 24 brave people you know and a lot of other brave people, but you know, in the in the.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: height of the public spotlight, and these gentlemen and Jeffrey Tucker were way up front before anyone else bravely risking.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know and getting huge attack by just stating kind of the obvious epidemiological wisdom public health wisdom, for decades, which was protect the vulnerable and everyone else should go about their lives.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: And they were right, it turns out, they were right, you know, so these emails are should be terrifying because.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Every one of us could imagine emails like that you know that name, we will we really have to find a way to shut her up and having worked inside those rooms.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: The power they have to shut people up is or to smear people is is already massive right, so the fact that people sitting at the very pinnacle of the really the only funding for science in America saying let’s take out the scientists let’s destroy them reputation.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: That should terrify all of us, especially because these guys were not enriching themselves or exploiting what they were saying they were just trying to avoid you know millions of deaths children out of school.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Mental health problems, alcoholism, you know other preventable deaths, they were doing their job so it’s it’s absolutely.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I don’t I don’t know what to say it’s it’s it’s criminal it’s corrupt it’s fraud you’re not supposed to use our tax dollars to go after American citizens it’s it’s wrong and evil and probably legal on so many levels but it’s also a very terrifying.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know, look at how far as administration will go to these people, I should say will go because it’s like a shadow government in there with it, you know the NIH and I ID to to get rid of their adversaries, you know reputation.

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Jennifer Grossman: So that brings us just about to the top of the hour here, Dr wolf um any other thoughts or topics that we didn’t get to.

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Jennifer Grossman: That.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: know I guess I should always end on a note of hope.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: I mean, I guess what I should say to everyone is, please, please go outside you know I know there are limits, but the more you can resist against comes restraint more you can say.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: You know, thank you, but I mean the beautiful thing about most mandates, is that they can threaten to find you, but unless the police officer shows up in court you’re not going to get fined so.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: from history, the more people just ignore mandates gather you know do what they do in France have giant picnics the middle of street if they hope that you enjoy the restaurants, you know.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: What if you don’t want to wear a mask respect other people’s face, but I always say you know, I have a disability, the ED covers me i’m not going to wear a mask Thank you will stand 12 feet away i’ll go wherever you want me to, but I can’t do that.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: The more you inform each other about how to, and we do Sunday with cloud how to submit letters to your employer, you know demanding an exemption.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Just not complying what happens is that it costs money to enforce it on a massive level when people simply don’t comply and it wears out these contracts it exhausts the the.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: The funds basically that were allocated toward breaking us as a civil society and also you know massive walkouts massive strikes peaceful resistance it worked to bring down Soviet Union, and it can work to reestablish SS republican.

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Jennifer Grossman: Well, that is a wonderful practical and optimistic note on which to end Dr wolf again, thank you very much, I want to remind all of you please check out outrageous.

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Jennifer Grossman: As well as the end of America and this one, but both of these actually would have quite a libertarian appeal and objective is point as well, so check those out and.

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Jennifer Grossman: look forward to having you all come and join us next week for our current events webinar with our faculty scholar, so thank you, thank you, Dr Wolf.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Thank you so much, and thank you to the audience and i’m so thrilled to go back to in branch now and read what is the first time onyx say thank you.

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Jennifer Grossman: I will put together a package for you okay.

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Dr. Naomi Wolf: Thank you so much bye bye.